Last Wednesday, the conservative talk show host Tucker Carlson started a fire on the right after airing a prolonged monologue on his show that was, in essence, an indictment of American capitalism.
America’s “ruling class,” Carlson says, are the “mercenaries” behind the failures of the middle class — including sinking marriage rates — and “the ugliest parts of our financial system.” He went on: “Any economic system that weakens and destroys families is not worth having. A system like that is the enemy of a healthy society.”
He concluded with a demand for “a fair country. A decent country. A cohesive country. A country whose leaders don’t accelerate the forces of change purely for their own profit and amusement.”
The monologue was stunning in itself, an incredible moment in which a Fox News host stated that for generations, “Republicans have considered it their duty to make the world safe for banking, while simultaneously prosecuting ever more foreign wars.” More broadly, though, Carlson’s position and the ensuing controversy reveals an ongoing and nearly unsolvable tension in conservative politics about the meaning of populism, a political ideology that Trump campaigned on but Carlson argues he may not truly understand.
Moreover, in Carlson’s words: “At some point, Donald Trump will be gone. The rest of us will be gone too. The country will remain. What kind of country will be it be then?”
The monologue and its sweeping anti-elitism drove a wedge between conservative writers. The American Conservative’s Rod Dreher wrote of Carlson’s monologue, “A man or woman who can talk like that with conviction could become president. Voting for a conservative candidate like that would be the first affirmative vote I’ve ever cast for president.” Other conservative commentators scoffed. Ben Shapiro wrote in National Review that Carlson’s monologue sounded far more like Sens. Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren than, say, Ronald Reagan.
I spoke with Carlson by phone this week to discuss his monologue and its economic — and cultural — meaning. He agreed that his monologue was reminiscent of Warren, referencing her 2003 book The Two-Income Trap: Why Middle-Class Parents Are Growing Broke. “There were parts of the book that I disagree with, of course,” he told me. “But there are parts of it that are really important and true. And nobody wanted to have that conversation.”
Carlson wanted to be clear: He’s just asking questions. “I’m not an economic adviser or a politician. I’m not a think tank fellow. I’m just a talk show host,” he said, telling me that all he wants is to ask “the basic questions you would ask about any policy.” But he wants to ask those questions about what he calls the “religious faith” of market capitalism, one he believes elites — “mercenaries who feel no long-term obligation to the people they rule” — have put ahead of “normal people.”
But whether or not he likes it, Carlson is an important voice in conservative politics. His show is among the most-watched television programs in America. And his raising questions about market capitalism and the free market matters.
“What does [free market capitalism] get us?” he said in our call. “What kind of country do you want to live in? If you put these policies into effect, what will you have in 10 years?”
Populism on the right is gaining, again
Carlson is hardly the first right-leaning figure to make a pitch for populism, even tangentially, in the third year of Donald Trump, whose populist-lite presidential candidacy and presidency Carlson told me he views as “the smoke alarm … telling you the building is on fire, and unless you figure out how to put the flames out, it will consume it.”
Populism is a rhetorical approach that separates “the people” from elites. In the words of Cas Mudde, a professor at the University of Georgia, it divides the country into “two homogenous and antagonistic groups: the pure people on the one end and the corrupt elite on the other.” Populist rhetoric has a long history in American politics, serving as the focal point of numerous presidential campaigns and powering William Jennings Bryan to the Democratic nomination for president in 1896. Trump borrowed some of that approach for his 2016 campaign but in office has governed as a fairly orthodox economic conservative, thus demonstrating the demand for populism on the right without really providing the supply and creating conditions for further ferment.
When right-leaning pundit Ann Coulter spoke with Breitbart Radio about Trump’s Tuesday evening Oval Office address to the nation regarding border wall funding, she said she wanted to hear him say something like, “You know, you say a lot of wild things on the campaign trail. I’m speaking to big rallies. But I want to talk to America about a serious problem that is affecting the least among us, the working-class blue-collar workers”:
Coulter urged Trump to bring up overdose deaths from heroin in order to speak to the “working class” and to blame the fact that working-class wages have stalled, if not fallen, in the last 20 years on immigration. She encouraged Trump to declare, “This is a national emergency for the people who don’t have lobbyists in Washington.”
Ocasio-Cortez wants a 70-80% income tax on the rich. I agree! Start with the Koch Bros. — and also make it WEALTH tax.
— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) January 4, 2019
These sentiments have even pitted popular Fox News hosts against each other.
Sean Hannity warned his audience that New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s economic policies would mean that “the rich people won’t be buying boats that they like recreationally, they’re not going to be taking expensive vacations anymore.” But Carlson agreed when I said his monologue was somewhat reminiscent of Ocasio-Cortez’s past comments on the economy, and how even a strong economy was still leaving working-class Americans behind.
“I’m just saying as a matter of fact,” he told me, “a country where a shrinking percentage of the population is taking home an ever-expanding proportion of the money is not a recipe for a stable society. It’s not.”
Carlson told me he wanted to be clear: He is not a populist. But he believes some version of populism is necessary to prevent a full-scale political revolt or the onset of socialism. Using Theodore Roosevelt as an example of a president who recognized that labor needs economic power, he told me, “Unless you want something really extreme to happen, you need to take this seriously and figure out how to protect average people from these remarkably powerful forces that have been unleashed.”
“I think populism is potentially really disruptive. What I’m saying is that populism is a symptom of something being wrong,” he told me. “Again, populism is a smoke alarm; do not ignore it.”
But Carlson’s brand of populism, and the populist sentiments sweeping the American right, aren’t just focused on the current state of income inequality in America. Carlson tackled a bigger idea: that market capitalism and the “elites” whom he argues are its major drivers aren’t working. The free market isn’t working for families, or individuals, or kids. In his monologue, Carlson railed against libertarian economics and even payday loans, saying, “If you care about America, you ought to oppose the exploitation of Americans, whether it’s happening in the inner city or on Wall Street” — sounding very much like Sanders or Warren on the left.
Carlson’s argument that “market capitalism is not a religion” is of course old hat on the left, but it’s also been bubbling on the right for years now. When National Review writer Kevin Williamson wrote a 2016 op-ed about how rural whites “failed themselves,” he faced a massive backlash in the Trumpier quarters of the right. And these sentiments are becoming increasingly potent at a time when Americans can see both a booming stock market and perhaps their own family members struggling to get by.